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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2012, 18:44 
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both very good examples. I did try to implement a similar system before but could not get the aiming rotation to look right so that is just my math/coding limits. I figured I could always touch up on that again. I do admit, it does look very nice. I was torn between making other things such as shots and explosions looking a bit more flashy than changing the actual character itself. I think while updating my new engine I may do some kind of aiming system like one of the two in the mentioned games. If anything maybe more like Heli Attack 3 and only because it showed better animations overall. the NFK was good, but they also based theirs on simplistic to focus more on intense multi play. Which is very respectful. Torn,....

Although for now I believe I will nail the gameplay. (physics, controls, balance between enemies and player weapons) then get slanted tiles implemented so hills can exist and not have boxes all over lol, and then make the player look sweet. I am kinda at a major loss on how to make collision for slopes without getting into per pixel detection though. that is the main thing that has stopped me from having that already.

Thanks again

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2012, 18:52 
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Saw this game a while ago on youtube, but never really got interested in it. Seeing the thread here I decided to check it out, and honestly, it wasn't as bad as I imagined. Though it has some issues that really annoyed me, and since this is just a demo version I guess I'll just post 'em here so you hopefully would fix them later.

The main issue being the gameplay's pacing. It's just SO. DAMN. SLOW. Why? Look at doom, it has fast gameplay pacing, why does this has to be so slow? Really, is this Doom or Call of Duty? If only you could just speed up everything in this game by 1.5-2 times (well, aside from monsters, I guess), it would already be infinitely times better! By the way, concerning speed... why MISSILES are so slow? They need to be, like 5-6 times faster than now, currently they are absolutely useless.
Second issue concerning the gameplay, is that sometimes it just seems a bit unfair, like in narrow passages, where there is absolutely no way to dodge enemy's fire. Or, sometimes it's impossible to tell what's below the player, it would be nice if you could add ability to look down, and made narrow passages a bit wider.

Now, concerning the graphics. Doom and doom64's sprites and textures are done in completely different styles, and don't mesh together very well. Also the visual design of the levels looks bland, barely any variation in the textures. But I guess that's just the demo, I hope later releases will look better.

Anyway, I don't really know what to say overall about this game in its current state, so I just hope you will keep working on it and making it better. I guess I'll just keep my eye on it for now.


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2012, 20:32 
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DezzTech wrote:
Saw this game a while ago on youtube, but never really got interested in it. Seeing the thread here I decided to check it out, and honestly, it wasn't as bad as I imagined. Though it has some issues that really annoyed me, and since this is just a demo version I guess I'll just post 'em here so you hopefully would fix them later.

The main issue being the gameplay's pacing. It's just SO. DAMN. SLOW. Why? Look at doom, it has fast gameplay pacing, why does this has to be so slow? Really, is this Doom or Call of Duty? If only you could just speed up everything in this game by 1.5-2 times (well, aside from monsters, I guess), it would already be infinitely times better! By the way, concerning speed... why MISSILES are so slow? They need to be, like 5-6 times faster than now, currently they are absolutely useless.
Second issue concerning the gameplay, is that sometimes it just seems a bit unfair, like in narrow passages, where there is absolutely no way to dodge enemy's fire. Or, sometimes it's impossible to tell what's below the player, it would be nice if you could add ability to look down, and made narrow passages a bit wider.

Now, concerning the graphics. Doom and doom64's sprites and textures are done in completely different styles, and don't mesh together very well. Also the visual design of the levels looks bland, barely any variation in the textures. But I guess that's just the demo, I hope later releases will look better.

Anyway, I don't really know what to say overall about this game in its current state, so I just hope you will keep working on it and making it better. I guess I'll just keep my eye on it for now.


As Neuntoter stated, this was not meant to be an engine specifically for Doom, it was meant as a 2D engine we could build original work on, but used Doom graphics for testing. A friend of mine is an actual artist, so after this game, we should have original art that will fit better together since it will be specifically designed for our game. The pacing is something we're hoping to address. We discussed the speed of the game very early in development, but with an incomplete engine and without a clear vision of what we were hoping to end up with, it ended up just being ignored. The levels where you get tighly enclosed with enemies won't be so common in future releases either. These levels were designed either before the engine was workable or are designed so that it is possible to dodge shots by baiting enemies out in the open. As for the aesthetics you mentioned, I am already aware the blocks are kind of bland and have been creating variations of each block to make the game feel less same-y. They weren't complete in time for the demo, nor was the code there to support them, but they're there now. Assuming a certain someone doesn't break the engine too bad this week, I'm hoping to get a majorly updated video up soon. That vid was from way way long ago, and pretty much everything in it is completely outdated.


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2012, 22:05 
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DezzTech:

I am glad that you tried it out. It is Demo and still needs alot of work. I think the pacing will increase as the stages get tougher. Kinda think like the demo is the first 3 stages in a game with about 30 stages. they pace slow at the beginning to help you at least get the feel of movement and controls. Since this version of DooM 2D was (to me) like a mix between old school Contra and DooM, I wanted the bullets to be seen easy enough but not too slow, and to me a missile moves slower than a bullet which I did so in the game. So who knows, after playing the newer episodes (when released) things may become a little more of what you were expecting as far as speed.

The Call of Duty comment did make me laugh, never really liked that game. But one thing is certain, as the game (stage wise) progresses, so does the intensity. Almost just like the original DooM games. Have to admit, the first few levels were slow as hell and then the game ripped your face off. I just hope I can pull off the same effect.

As with the GFX, maybe it's just because I'm not a graphic artist but they seem to mesh ok to me.. Oh well, we all have our own preferences. Either way, I do appreciate your feed back.

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2012, 22:40 
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About blocks. Why they are so huge, 64px, size of hero? In the Mario, there are about half of protagonist's height, in the Doom2D classic - about quarter. Smaller blocks - more flexible level design.
And are you planning to make slopes, as in Potnop's game?

Neuntoter, I think not so big percent of gamers, who are in love with Doom, love Call of Duty too )

P.S. XNA. There will be an Xbox version too? )

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2012, 01:27 
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the hero is 128 tall, most enemies are 128, some smaller as with the spiders in boss fight. The tiles are 64x64 which is what most of the textures in DooM are. slopes are in the planned future once I figure out the best way to code the collision. Xbox live release is planned after the PC version is final version (engine). Cause from my understanding, the conversion from PC to XBox Live is more or less the controls and some minor resolution stuff.


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2012, 21:06 
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Tried this out, nice game! ;)
But the game screen is larger than my 1366X768 so i didn't seen the status bar. Please make "Full-screen mode" or make the game screen smaller :)
And it will be nice, if you make monsters from DooM II less colorful, taller and more dark, something like this:

Attachment:
d64chainpos.png
d64chainpos.png [ 4.89 KiB | Viewed 9014 times ]


P.S. Sorry for my bad english


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2012, 16:15 
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Igror:
Sorry about the windowed experience. I did state earlier in the thread how this came to be and it was a major slip on my part. Within the next few days I will be releasing a small patch that will be fixing that (going back to fullscreen) and correcting collision boxes.

And about your suggestion about the sprites, we are using sprite rips straight from DooM I, DooM II and DooM 64. I believe the ripped height of them is roughly around 64ish or so and we are actually making them around 128. So we are already stretching them and would hate to kill any more quality without having to completely modify the sprite itself. Although some enemies I did make a little taller. Such as the Baron is taller then the Hell Knight. So Nonulok is making slight changes to make them fit as to the size we chose for the hero which is 128.

Hopefully after everything is done and final, I may implement a lighting system to make things a little darker, but as of right now that is far on my list of things to do. On our blog page I will make a post when the next patch release is posted, so please look out for it. It actually makes the end boss fight more interesting with the adjusted collision boxes and updated sounds :) , and of course it will be full screen.

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2012, 21:03 
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You can use for stretching this little utility: http://grompe.org.ru/files/hqscaler.zip, it works with a lot of algorythms and able to resize sprites with good quality.

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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2012, 16:15 
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this weekend I should have a tweaked patched that will make it fullscreen and adjust collisions so the boss will be a little more tough and you will be able to shoot other baddies in their heads which currently is not possible.

So far Nonulok and I would love to thank everyone here for their suggestions and input. Being a dev and hearing good solid issues and praise along with player suggestions makes a huge difference on how the ending project comes out and the morale of those working on the project. Any more questions or concerns by all means, ask away.

Neuntoter.


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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2012, 20:56 
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Sounds giood. And what about running on XP?

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2012, 16:14 
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So far I can not figure out why it will only run on some XP machines and not others. It runs fine on my 1 buddies system. He has SP3 and all the .NETs and DX9 all up to date. So this is really a mystery, but I am still looking into that.


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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2012, 15:59 
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Tomorrow morning I will post the updated patch with fullscreen set. This weekend may also mark when Nonulok and myself will start working on the new set of levels for the up and coming Challenge version.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2012, 04:09 
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Sounds good.
I will visit my friend, who are using W7, for taking a look at this new version.

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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2012, 03:01 
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Even though the engine that the demo is being made on is being done away with I still have a few tricks up my sleeve about doing a few small DooM 2D projects with it and adding a few new features before putting full focus on the new engine for DooM episodes. I did upload the fullscreen version of the demo and I hope those that wanted the fixed version either got a chance to play it or at least get it.

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2012, 15:47 
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Upon a friendly request from ID software, I had to pull the DooM 2D Demo. The issue was is that I was using ripped sprites for the assets of the game instead of using them from the shareware wad file. Now what Nonulok and I are working on is creating all new assets for the shooter engine that we have and making a new game(as in same game, different name and face). I will also be looking into how I can utilize wad files with my engine so the Doom project can continue.

I respect IDs decision on having me pull the downloads and have absolutely no hard feelings for the decision that they made. They have made awesome games from the start and have always been very friendly with the mod community.

I hope those that have gotten ahold of the demo had fun with it enjoyed the game play of it, and believe me when I say, the new version will contain dark gfx, improved gameplay, and a very cool and twisted story. It will basically be an edited version of what we were going for with the DooM game but it will contain the modified story and assets.

Thanks for the understanding,

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2012, 17:09 
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I cannot understand why ID can have something against fangames. As I think, you did not planning using ripped doom sprites for anything commercial, they even smaller than you need.
(Of course, for commercial game you must use self-made sprites).

And you are using Doom-64 sprites, from Nintendo, not from ID.

Anyway, don't stop developing.

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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2012, 20:31 
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No, we will not stop development. The engine itself is fine so Nonulok and I will be creating fully custom (new) assets and calling it a new name. The gameplay itself will remain the same, if anything improve. The whole DooM 2D project is getting put on hold while I learn how to incorporate the .wad files into my engine. I was told if I could do that, then it would be fully legal. So this will definitively turn into a very fun filled ride.

Sorry about the upcoming delay, but this will not die, promise :)

Neuntoter


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2012, 20:56 
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That's, eh, strange. Why doesn't this site get closed for same reasons then? As long as you don't sell you stuff, it is legal to use any commerical resources, as long as your product isn't a complete replica of some commerical product, like if you made a 100% precise Doom remake and are giving it out for free.
ID still holds some copyrights for Doom 64. Nintendo is a bit less friendly with fangame developers. So if you use the actual Doom graphics, not the D64 ones, ID would be okay with that, i guess.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2012, 01:22 
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Trust me, I was shocked with the initial email (private message on MODDB) myself. But I will say Todd was really cool about the whole thing and told me how I could make it within legal limits. So since we are kinda under some heat right now I figured lay low, follow his wishes and go from there. But until then we will just start working on our project with different assets, change some of the mechanics around since this is not a Doom game at the current moment. When I coded the game I limited some of the features to make it like Doom but didn'y want to kill all platfoming features. but now with it being a new name we can add some really sic features we wanted to add a while ago. I hope that this site keeps under IDs radar because I love the work you have here. When I figure out how to use wad files in my engine, DooM 2D will commence again.

Neuntoter


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